IRL - Peter Mollins (1)
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[00:00:00] Welcome to the Innovative Revenue Leader Podcast. I'm your host, Seth Mars. Join me as we deliver practical insights to help B2B CROs Find new and innovative ways to grow in this fast changing environment. The Innovative Revenue Leader is sponsored by Sandler, a triad company, empowering sales professionals and leaders to master the craft of selling at all levels.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: Welcome back everyone. Today's Guess is, someone that, I've worked with over, over time when I was at Forrester and when he went over to Nooks and I think we actually worked together a little bit at At Set Sale. He's a marketing leader, Go-to-market Strategist and B2B, Seth Growth, SaaS Growth Executive.
He leads full funnel marketing strategy across AI and SaaS companies driving pipeline revenue and brand positioning. He's tripled SQLs through targeted a BM strategy and repositioned AI products into business critical solutions. He's known for guiding teams through growth and acquisition, scaling [00:01:00] marketing from strategy to to real revenue impact.
His current position is at Nooks. Uh, he's the Vice President of Marketing. Peter Mullins. Great to have you, Juan.
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: Oh, so.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: So like, you, you've seen, I mean, you're, you're very connected in the tech space. You've been monitoring this stuff for a long time, seen a lot of things that we're around, Go-to-market. What, what do you think is the most innovative thing that you've seen that you're seeing in B2B right now?
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: So what what's interesting is like the, the human AI I hybrid, that's what I'm really seeing,
seeing as being compelling. Um, You know, the pure ai, just doing it on its own, utterly, utterly on its own is. Is just not, not effective. But the bringing the two together, I think is, is what I think is, is super innovative. And why, why it is, is because, first off, on the, on the, uh, um, the recipient side, if you will, I don't, I, I don't know about you, but I, I get too much of this. Um, You know, the AI slop as they say, You know, that's just, You know, [00:02:00] clearly hollow, clearly lacking any kind of passion or conviction or humanity to it. And if I'm spending a hundred thousand dollars on a solution, if I'm spending a thousand dollars on a solution, I wanna make sure that there's someone on the other end of the line once I purchase something. That is, uh, gonna be there to support me. And so I do want to buy from people even at the, even at the low end of the market.
And we still see that. And I, I think we're gonna continue to see that that sales is gonna remain that, that human side of things. what's interesting is, of course, AI has a massive role and that's, um, doing things like the, the science if you will, side of, of selling. So the way, the way I think that's like really innovative is when people are able to combine those two things effectively, the science and the art, the human and the ai or the AI and the human. And one of the ways that I've seen that as being, uh, as like one of the most interesting and compelling ways that I've seen some of our customers do that is they'll be using AI in order to gather these signals. You know, maybe, uh, looking across all of their CRM [00:03:00] data, let's say discover what, You know, what was the reason why a deal was lost six months ago?
Maybe it was security reason, let's say. Um. And looking across all of, um, You know, external signals that are out there. You know, maybe that's, uh, posts on, um, on X or maybe it's a, um, a 10 K form or something. But AI is fantastic at being able to pull together all that information from all those sources. But what the, again, the innovative part is combining in that with the human side. And so there. what we often see our, our customers doing is having conversations lower in the stack below the line, as, as you say.
Um, So, um, let's say that you're calling, let's say that your, your, your buyer is a, uh, ciso, chief Information Security Officer. You have like one shot to convince that CISO that, that they should be talking to you, right? Like if you, if you manage to get them on the phone and your pitch falls flat. if you instead are calling in [00:04:00] to the manager of it and the director of email infrastructure and the whatever, and you're getting insights from them they're gonna be much more open, right? And you're getting insights from them into what? What works. You combine that with the AI generated intel that you're getting from previous interactions, from publicly available data, the first party and third party together, the human and the AI together. That's how you build a great business case
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: Yeah, I think that's such a critical point, and it's one that I don't think a lot of companies understand because like I've seen it. You get these sales leaders that are like, you need to call high Call High, call high. It's like, if I'm gonna make that one call to the ciso. I would much rather have tried and talked to all the sales manager, learn the business, and gotten through a few different pathways.
One, in a lot of cases, those people will lead you to CISO if their message resonates.
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: Yeah.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: And then also it makes sure when you're talking to them, you can have a much more educated [00:05:00] conversation. 'cause to your point, you get one shot, like you're gonna get one shot if you're just, if you're trying to call direct to them with your standard like batched, like.
Email in a cadence or a call in a cadence, it's, it's never gonna work. But it, that, that point you make is so important because it's not all about calling. It's not, you want to get high in the organization. You don't want to just directly call high. I think that's a lazy approach, You know, in a lot of situations.
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: Yeah. Yeah. Like I, I think about myself. Like I, I, I think that there's, there's a number of different things that are gonna motivate me to, to take a call. Like one is, um, You know, senior leadership, uh, our founders, the board, like they're, they're, they're seeing that there's a pain and they're coming to me and saying, you need to look at this. It could be that there's a competitor that's doing something very similar. It could be that a a, um, some of our customers are requiring something. Or it could be that, You know, people on my team are, are, are, You know, complaining or in a, in a good way, in a positive way. They're, they have an [00:06:00] issue, they have a challenge. And so when I hear that my team has a challenge, like that is a, that's a great motivator for me. So
I Always think about it in terms of like incentives. Why, why would someone be incented to take a meeting with you? And so you have to think about what are those things that are, that, um, that are driving me And it, and it comes back to like, You know, senior leadership and board customers, competitors and the team.
Those are like key things that I'd, that I'd be thinking about how you can leverage those two to help motivate someone to take a meeting.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: It is not a, it's not a cold call where you're trying to book a meeting. You're trying to add value. You find a way to add value, and you get a meeting out of it because they wanna learn more.
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: Yeah, that's right. That's right.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: You said two things that I think are really critical to kind of reinforce. One of 'em was, and I've heard this over and over and over, when it comes to like AI versus a person.
People want someone that will be accountable for the AI that will be accountable to them. A phone they, a phone number they can pick up and actually [00:07:00] talk to human that will be responsible for them. Like that's, that comes up over and over and over when you talk to people. They really do want that. They want, they don't want to, and you can almost, you can almost correlate it to getting caught in the.
The contact center phone loop, right? And where you never get to the person that, that will be accountable for taking care of me. It seems like that's becoming even more valuable as more AI gets pushed in front of customers.
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: Right.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: the other thing that you said, I think that is, so, I think that's a really important thing to make, is who, when you're talking to customers.
How do you leverage that and make sure that, that there's a, an accountable person? The other one you kind of alluded to is the premium of a person talk, talking to a human, that that's also ratcheting up and ratcheting up in multiple ways, like you're seeing more in person and more interest in having in person from customers, but then also just getting a human in [00:08:00] general.
Feels like it's becoming more of a premium. So it's, it is a weird shift that I think over time, you're gonna have, like getting to talk to a person is gonna be something you want, whereas now it's.
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting, like the, um, yeah, and, and like, in order to do that, in order for, for, to, to clear the space for that, uh, I mean, You know, from like the, the, the, uh, Sandler data and the Forrester data and previous stuff is, is. Um, how little time is actually available in a salesperson's day for those human to human interactions. And so again, like, I know we've been talking about this for many years, but the, the, this is a true moment where AI can have that impact, where it can clear away, You know, the, the aggravations like, You know, I just finished a call and I now need to put my notes in the CRM, or, You know, I need to distill all this data in order to have a, an effective follow up.
You know, there's so many different things that can get cleared away, so I can focus on that human relationship. [00:09:00] And kind of to your first point as well. I, I was at this, I was at a conference just, uh, this week sat down at a table fellow across from me. He's a senior, uh, sales leader. And, uh, he sees my jacket and he goes, oh, nooks. Yeah, actually I just just got a call from your SDR and he names the name of the, of the SDR. He didn't look it up on his phone. He didn't, he didn't, You know, he just knew the name of the SDR that was calling him from Nooks, which I thought is just like the best sign. 'cause it, it showed that this wasn't just some, someone that's calling and, You know, and, and emailing and, and, You know, connecting with 'em on LinkedIn as someone who's, You know, actually trying to nurture a meaningful relationship and that that just is going to pay dividends down the line.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: That's where the real value, it's, it's that relationship that's where the real value is. And being, and being in, in, in being successful at at cold outbound.
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: Yep.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: Yeah. Yeah. It's, so we're, we're kind of running a session around BDRs and, And so I, I, I very much appreciate you, you [00:10:00] participating in this because it's, it's one of those areas where it's very much under attack and to a certain extent when you get into details, maybe not as under attack as people think is more what people are saying.
So like, you've got everybody saying that the BDR role is dead. But NS is growing like crazy. So you, you're, and you're supporting this community, you're supporting outbound, like what's, what's your take on this role? Because you're seeing like the facts of this and how they're actually playing out in a world where you are doing upfront prospecting and driving growth and, and delivering results.
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: And you're so right. Uh, I always, I always think it is, it just does to come back to the results. And are you seeing results from, from outbound? And the reality is, is the, the, the iceberg of demand hasn't changed, which is you've got a sliver of people that are in market, and then you've got people that are. Potentially in market, but just aren't aware of your [00:11:00] solution or why they should prioritize your solution. um, And so at the top of that, that pyramid where people are, uh, in market and, and interested, then you want to be signal driven. You want to understand, uh, who they are and what particular pain they have so that you can have hyper-focused and, You know, very effective outbound. for the middle part of the iceberg where they potentially could be convinced, You know, signals still play a big part, but, um, but outbound continues to deliver in that middle section where people, um, may be convinced to prioritize whatever your solution is. They just need to know about it. They need to know, uh, they need to be able to quantify what the pain is.
They need to be able to understand that it is something worth prioritizing. So, yeah, a lot of people say that, that, um. That outbound is dead. We've heard that for, for 10, 15, 20 years. I mean, I, I've, I've heard it since I was dialing nine to get out of my office and do my outbound. [00:12:00] And the reality is, is that it continues to deliver outsized results.
And we're seeing, You know, major and very innovative companies, You know, getting a lot of results from this.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: Yeah, I mean, bottom line is, it's, it's, it's never dying. It's evolving, and if you evolve with it, there's always potential there because you're opening up a new channel that you can't reach or that you can't access at that point in the deal. If you don't have some way to do outbound and, and kind of get more than your fair share, instead of waiting for people to call you.
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: That's, that's right. That's exactly right. I, I think that, um, You know, like inbound of course still has a place, there's no doubt. Um, but, uh, but you have to be proactive about going out there and, and getting that market. Otherwise, You know, others will do that for you. Your competitors will do that for you and take that market from you.
So you need to be proactive.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: I mean,
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: Yeah.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: It's interesting, like I always, you always hear the marketing stat, right? Only 5% of people are in market. Uh, at any given time. And I think there is, there is some truth to that. I would add to it and say that there's also another five to 10% [00:13:00] that you can bring in market by providing them the answer to a question they didn't know that they needed to ask.
And that to me is where outbound to significantly expand your ability to sell to customers. 'cause if you're just waiting for them to know you and contact you, then
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: I, I mean, the way I think about it is, is just in terms of like prioritization people at the tip of the iceberg that, that you're mentioning that are in market, that just means that that's that, um, that's priority one. The people that are down a little bit lower. Maybe it's priority three, maybe it's four, but you have the, the opportunity to convince them that that should be priority one. Um, and, uh, uh, and you do that by, You know, uh, your competitors are doing this or you, uh, You know, customers that are doing it or maybe a, a, uh, interesting hot take. Um. You know, there are many, many strategies that you can do to move that up, and it's, it's not like, it's immutable. The position on the iceberg, you, that's your job is [00:14:00] those things up.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's the advantage.
So you talked about like the AI piece and how that's like, that's taking pieces of work away, making other pieces of work more efficient. What do you think at the core of A BDR role is the, like the core value of A BDR role today and in the future like that you have to have, that's that difference maker that AI will just enhance.
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: Yeah. I mean, ultimately, ultimately, I think, uh, I just come back to like, what's the point? And the point is pipeline, Jen, right?
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: Yeah.
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: To build pipeline. It's meetings. Sure, of course you want meetings, but ultimately you're trying to build pipeline that converts. and I think to do that, you really need to go back to first principles on. Um, like essentially the iceberg again, which is, You know, identifying which, which of the companies, which of the targets that are gonna make the most sense to pursue now, like everyone, You know, I mean, me coming up in marketing, it was always I-C-P-I-C-P and it
sure, Of course it matters, but if you [00:15:00] don't have that other access on there, like if you have, if you only are doing firmographics. And you're not doing behavioral, the behavioral side of things, the, the signal side of things, then, You know, I think you're, you're missing the boat. So the core, the core has to come back to essentially a prioritization, uh, discussion. Prioritizing which accounts to go after today because there's signaling that there's an interest in some form. Uh, being able to translate those signals, whether they're third party again or they're first party from previous conversations or previous interactions, translate those into a message that's going to resonate, I think there's a, there's a danger in, um, um, sort of this relevance versus personalization. Um, this, uh, You know, confusion, which is, Let's say they, uh, you've got someone and they, they are signaling in some fashion that they're probably in market. And if you go to 'em with, with just simply a, um, a personalized message, [00:16:00] You know, uh, hey, I saw that you're the VP of marketing at, at nooks. Um, and you're just reaching out with a generic message because in some way that maybe I'm in market. you're still, you're missing half the equation. It needs to be relevant, You know, like, so turning that signal into, um, a message that resonates based on what I'm signaling. I'm giving up all this information all the time that's going to indicate what is relevant to me.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: I, I mean, it's interesting that you say that because it's, I mean, the level of personalization, it's almost becoming like a B2C customer where you just kind of expect when an email comes to you that you understand me what I want and how to talk to me.
And I think What you're saying, which I think is really relevant, but even more so in today's tools, it used to be if I had a cadence, I need to adjust my rote cadence.
Like these are my eight steps. I would adjust my eight steps in different ways, maybe go 10 step, like in different factors.
There's a level of personalization that goes into it. So it almost seems like the [00:17:00] real value of of A BDR is to be able to suss out what works in those unique situations and and to be able to apply it so you can still do the same level of volume.
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: Hmm.
nooks-peter_3_04-23-2026_100742: At a level of personalization that just wasn't feasible in the past, but it requires a person to understand how that works and have some intuition. Because if you're just following the next best action, which a lot of people talk about, then you are like everybody else.
squadcaster-9b3a_1_04-23-2026_100742: Yeah, I mean, we just, we just actually just launched like our, our sequencing a couple months ago and like we, we basically went back to the foundations and said. Does it make sense to have these, um, uh, very linear, very uh, one after another sequences where on day one you're gonna do this, and day three you're gonna do that? Of course not because people, uh, interact with, with that message in different ways. You're getting different information back all the time. If you send an email and you get the open, that's, uh, [00:18:00] you and, uh, you get a reply of some of, or even better, you get a reply, You know, you're getting information, you get someone on the phone, you're getting information, and of course that should influence what happens in the rest of rest of your outreach. so let's just take like an easy example of day one I call. And, um, I get, I get someone on the line. Maybe they, they weren't able to talk right then, but I got one question out, or they gave me one tiny bit of information like, Hey, I can't talk right now because I'm heading to a conference.
I don't know. Intel that like AI can transcribe, can turn into a message for that follow up email. Um, otherwise the follow up email, if it's just, You know, a, a linear sequence. What, is it gonna be? It's just gonna be, um, next, You know, here's this case study, You know, like, or whatever. Like it, it's, you've got intel use it, right?
And so that's where I think the AI is, is it can dynamically, um, support [00:19:00] that. And you're, you're also right about like the humanity side of things. that's why we think it's so important to have the human in the loop because. Um, you don't want to just have the, you hang up the phone and there's an AI just shoots out an email without any kind of thought.
You
want to, you Want the sales rep, um, to be able to customize that, to tailor it to their own voice, um, to maybe have some extra nuance. Maybe there's some other context that's outside of the, the AI's purview. You know, having that human in the loop just again, reinforces what you're saying, which is the, the idea of making that, that premium human relationship, that's your differentiator is, is the humanity that you're reinserting.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: All right, so, so there's a lot of a, a talk around how do you measure A BDR. Like, what is success for, and like, what's your take on the best way to measure A-A-B-D-R that proves that they're worth the value of investing in them, in them for the business?
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: Yeah. Uh, there's a, I I've met a lot of, a lot of BDRs, a lot of BDR leaders. [00:20:00] There's definitely differences of, of opinion here. Um, I think that the, the most obvious one to me is, is gonna be, uh, pipe gen creation. Um. You know, like there a typical a, a standard BDR is not gonna be responsible and shouldn't be responsible for qualification. Again, there's als a million caveats. So I'm, I'm not
saying that's, Uh, a blanket statement, but, um, but I like pipe gen as a, as a number because it does have a quality component to it. So, um, so it does require that. Um, uh, that the meeting takes place, first off, um, that, uh, the person that shows up is the correct person, the, the qualified person, and that the conversation goes somewhere. Um, so to me, pipe gen is, is sort of the, the like, where it enters the earliest stage in your, in your funnel. To me is where, where they should be measured typically. some people have success with a closed one. It kind of depends on [00:21:00] like, deal size kind of depends on velocity of the deal. Some people have more success with meetings because, again, because deal size and, and, um, and, uh, and velocity. So I think it really does depend, but ultimately you're gonna need to have it up there. But still, there's, there's other measures that I think are really, really effective. Um, You know, most people consider SDRs BDRs to be, um, their, their next AEs and it's a training ground to and often their most successful AEs. And, um, uh, And so the time and seat, the um, um, pro the promotability of SDRs is another sort of under thought through. metric, um, is because, 'cause really like that, that I think is the, the one of the best benefits. I mean, the benefit to me personally is like seeing SDRs getting promoted into ae. So another thing I, I take into account is like that, that kind of bench stat.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Yeah, it's interesting you say that because it. It's the one that you feel like when you, when when I talk to CROs, it's the one they [00:22:00] feel like I feel the most weight amongst 'em. It's
like, oh, I've had so many good salespeople come out of being a BDR. They're almost more worried about that going away than the, the pipe gen that they would create.
It's, it's, I wouldn't have expected it, but you can, you could see it in those discussions you have with them.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And, and I think that, um, like the role is, is gonna shift. Like there's no doubt that, that you're gonna see more and more people leveraging AI to be effective. Um, and you're gonna see that these sellers are gonna become, these, these 10 x sellers that are just like radically more effective at, at generating more and more pipeline. Uh, than you ever saw before. But even today, I mean, you, you look at the, the job listings in, You know, some of the, the hottest, most AI forward companies and they're continuing to hire SDRs. I just saw a listing the other day for, You know, for one of, one of the big, um, um, uh, GPTs out there and they're hiring, [00:23:00] You know, a director of of SDRs because the expansion is so high.
So, You know, just continuing to see that. Also we're seeing even at, um, companies that are maybe moving towards like a full cycle rep, like the return of the full cycle rep there, it full cycle includes outbound
because, You know, because it, it matters so much, right? It's just, You know, how do you enable them so that they are as efficient and effective as possible when they're doing that outbound work so that they can, You know, have more time for, for closing.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: How do you think, like with that, like do you really think that that, 'cause that kind of the whole purpose of A BDR was because sellers were so bad at doing outbound and you could get, you could get a lot more quality pipeline by having a BDR enough to justify hiring a HA headcount.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: Yeah.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Do you think it could work?
Like with the seller being, I mean, I like en mass not, not like whether we two these sellers, but they, they failed at that before.
Is, is that a viable path?
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: [00:24:00] Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, it's always, it's always gonna be dependent on the, the, the, the company, what they're selling and the like. I mean, I'm a, I'm a big backer of, of BDRs, SDRs. I, I think that, that that dedicated solution set, dedicated role focused on building pipeline is, um, is just so important because, because we, we live in a noisy world um, and it's tough to get buyers' attention. And so I just love this, this, this idea that you've got someone that is AI enabled. Sharp. Great with messaging, great With building rapport quickly that can jump in and make those connections in order to, again, change priorities. So, um, You know, will the, will the full cycle ae take over and be the only thing, I, I don't think so.
I think that, that the BDR role is an SDR role is, You know, continues to add outsized. Value. Value, um, but for those people that do do the full cycle, yeah. There, there you [00:25:00] absolutely have to be focused on how do you make it, make that, that prospecting and outbounding time as as effective as
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Yeah. How do you, how do you see it from a role like the, the role of A BDR and where it sits? Because there's always the con, you talk to a marketer, it should be in marketing, you talk to a seller, it should be in selling.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: Mm-hmm.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Do you have a stance on that? On where, where it works best?
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: I, I think it, it, it's my, uh, I think that it depends on, again, on the org, like I, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule on it. I think the default should Oh yeah. yeah. because of the career pathing. Um.
because I, I think that is just so important. Um, not that everyone, not that every SDR has to become a ae, of course.
I mean, I've seen, I, I've, uh, seen people go into hr, I've seen 'em go into cs. It is probably the most common one outside of sales that I see. but I think it does depend. So, You know, I think if you have more of a marketing led motion, then it probably makes more sense to be, to be in marketing. Um, You know, uh, there's a [00:26:00] lot of benefits to being in marketing because, You know, there's, um, um, automations, the marketing programs, maybe it's maybe your, like, events driven.
And so getting people into events is, is a, maybe a critical function for your SDR team. Um, product feedback and messaging feedback is great. 'cause then you, You know, you hear instantly whether, um. You know, whether a, a, a certain message is resonating, although, You know, again, like a lot of the AI actually is helping with that because, You know, like, uh, I can, I can just go into my nooks and I can ask questions about what messages working on different outbound calls.
I can figure that out myself right now. so um, so yeah, I would say default to sales, but, uh, but depending on, on your Go-to-market, if it is very, um, marketing led, then yeah, you may consider, consider marketing.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: That makes it, that makes, makes a ton of sense. So one thing that I, that I, I definitely wanted to ask you. I mean, nooks has made dialers cool again, [00:27:00] which, I mean, I think a lot of people had written 'em off, but I mean, you've proven the value still exists. What's different about your approach that made you successful?
Where, like the market itself installed, but now you come back in and it is full board. Like there is a ton of value. There's a lot of people that are really getting able to use you in a way that, that maybe they couldn't, they couldn't do before or maybe didn't understand how to use these, these tools before.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so the phone I think is critical and it's, I think it's critical, especially as part of like a full, a full platform story. the phone is great for like instant feedback, um, instant insights into, into your customers getting, getting, um, You know, being able to ask a question. Like if I, if I asked you, um, You know, when is which, which tools are you using today? Or what does your current tech stack look like? Or, uh, when is the competitor coming up for renewal or whatever. Um, [00:28:00] they're way more likely to answer that than if I just shot you in a cold email
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Yeah.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: Hey, what, what is your platform I right now? Are you gonna reply to that? You never reply to that. Um, but I think where it really shines though, is in concert with. with, uh, outbound email. Um, and, uh, and You know, all like, just the full cycle of, of outreach because they inform each other.
Um, a, a great email is informed by a great call. Your call script for your next call is informed by what resonated in an email that you just sent, You know? So, um, so I think that's where being holistic in your, in your, in your approach. Um. Yeah, so, so, um, so yeah, so I think like calling absolutely, it's, it's seeing a renaissance and I think that the true zenith of the Renaissance is in concert with all out outbound, uh, channels.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Got it. Got it. Which is why you've been expanding to be able to cover [00:29:00] those. Right.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Right.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: So five years from now, does the BDR role exist?
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: I think it does. I think it's, it's very much enabled by ai. You're gonna see, um, SDRs that are just hyper effective and are generating vastly more pipeline than they they do today. And I think that there, there, it's, You know, I think that, that it's also a. job that people will be excited about because so much of the, uh, grunt work, the work that You know, was, was, You know, not, not as fulfilling. Things like the research, the, um, data entry, the dialing, the writing, follow up emails, the CRM fill fills, the dispositions of the call of calls or emails, You know, all of that. get automated, right? And then you can focus on being the, uh, orchestrator, right? And being the communicator so that, [00:30:00] uh, when those emails go out, I've looked them over and I've decided, You know, what's, what's right?
And then AI starts to get better at hearing my voice.
Um, I've, I've been able to identify which signals to me are the most relevant, and AI is able to then, know, zoom in on those and do the research and make it, make them more effective. Um, I'm able to focus more on those conversations, right? I'm having more chats and at bats with my prospects, And so I'm getting better as a salesperson each day.
So so yeah, in five years I absolutely think that the SDR role is gonna be around, but it's gonna be, um, really an interesting role that's, that's, um, all about, relationships. Relationships with, uh, having more and better quality relationships with your, with your prospects.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Almost more uniquely valuable than it is today where it's used as more of kind of like a machine today.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: I, I think the, uh, I think that that the, uh, I mean, I couldn't be more of a champion of, of SDRs and, and I'm just ver I'm very excited about [00:31:00] the direction that it's headed. It's, it's, um, it's, it's one that's gonna make the role even more strategic.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Absolutely. So like, let's turn a little bit to you. So as when you were growing up, did you kind of see yourself in marketing and as marketing being a thing that you wanted to do that in your, your future as a kid?
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: in a way, like, I don't know if I, I certainly didn't rec recognize it at the time, but, um, my, my thing as a, as a kid was telling stories, like writing stories, that, that was just my, my thing. And I, I, and that's one of the ways that I got into marketing was. You know, being able to knit together an interesting story,
an Interesting narrative. so that was, that was one thing. And then there's a much longer story, which is an entire podcast itself about, uh, how I, how I stumbled into tech. But, um. That was the, the short version is essentially, it was, um, through events and, You know, that that person to person connection. Um, so whether that's in person or [00:32:00] whether that's on the phone or whether that's in really great electronic communication, but, but it's about the, the human connection.
And I think that you put those two things together and then, You know, marketing just seemed, seemed like a natural fit.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Yeah, it's crazy 'cause that is true. I mean, and, and it's evolved to that too, so. If marketing met you where you were, because the ability to tell a story is kind of what is needed to differentiate yourself in market, your company when you're in marketing. So yeah,
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: well, it's, that's so true. You know, and, and like I think that, that, that's also, I wouldn't say it's underrated, it's just, it's, but I think it's under executed on, is linking that narrative to your customers. Like for, for, for me, I always say like, what's, what's my, when, whenever I'm asked what's my, my best marketing tactic or strategy, what is the best marketing strategy for us? Ultimately it's make your customers incredibly successful, help 'em get promoted and make more money. Uh, and um. Amplify their voice.
Like [00:33:00] There's, there's nothing that we can do better than supporting our customers through great product, great service, and a great, a great sales process.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Yep.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: And just making them feel like, um, they're valued.
And the more that we can do that, then it just pays dividends. But it's also just rewarding. It's like there's, like, I love going to events and meeting customers, not because it's like, oh, they're gonna. me to someone, or, oh, they're gonna refer me to someone. I mean, that's just a, that's just a side benefit.
It's, it's because it's really, really rewarding to see people, getting value out of what, what, what you're producing. And so the more that you can, that you can, um, just focus on making those customers successful and amplifying them. I think you're, you're, you're onto some, some marketing rocket fuel.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: You make the customer the hero of the story.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: Yeah, that's right.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Yep.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: That's right.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: So when you graduated college and you, if you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice to kind of where you are today that would be most impactful, what? What would that be?
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: Uh, I [00:34:00] think be risks to take more risks. Like I, I, um, um, I. I went, I graduated and then worked overseas for, for a little while. And, um, and that was, that was really rewarding. But I think I still could have taken far more risks. Uh, like it, it, uh, I kind of shifted industries a bit radically and, uh, went from I was heading towards banking. I was a bank teller for all Oh wow.
school and college.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Wow.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: Yeah. And, and even though, as You know, I was robbed three times and still still stuck with it, um,
uh, that's another podcast.
Yeah.
Uh, but then got into tech. I started at, uh, as an intern at, uh, at Netscape.
And, um, You know, it kind of gives you a sense for how long ago that was. And, um, they just had such an incredible machine and incredible story too. Like that just, that just won me over, like this idea of this, the outsider coming in and, You know, being, [00:35:00] uh, essentially a champion for consumers in
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Yeah.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: Like the, You know, the, the way the browser was, um. Was just exciting to me. So if I, if I were to go back, I, I would say, yeah, it, it's, it's, I took a risk in going from, You know, the stable world into, into tech. Um, yeah, I wish I'd done it sooner.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Yeah, that's fascinating because I mean
like, yeah, something about tech, it's kind of magical, right? Like you, you're able to just do things that the world couldn't do without it, which is just amazing.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: Yeah. Yeah. And there's something very, You know, it's, um, there, there's, there's just like a positivity about it where you, you think that, um, we can change things that aren't, You know, maybe they're not bad, maybe they're just, uh, friction full, You know, like it's things that are dragging you down and preventing you from doing the things you want to do.
And, um, uh, and, And so that idealism of. Being able to, able to clear [00:36:00] away things that you don't need to be focused on to get to the things that matter, I think is, is just a, it's a great, great notion.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: It's so true. So tell, tell, tell the audience a little bit about Nooks.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: so essentially Nooks is an ag agentic workspace for sellers. It, it helps to automate processes around outbound for SDRs, full cycle reps, BDRs, um, And so it helps them to automate things like account research so they identify, um, You know, which accounts are in market, helps identify who the individuals are and gets contact information for them. And then uses this deep research across first party and third party signals, um, to help generate messaging that you can then execute on in the platform. Uh, through calling through email and others, uh, in order to reach out and, uh, engage your prospects and turn that into pipeline. the way I think about it is like, uh, you've got your seller team and they wake up in the morning at 9:00 AM and they go in and they've got full list of [00:37:00] who is it that they should be going after right now, why they should be going after them right now. And they can just start, moving to an AI sequence that's going to start engaging those prospects and building, helping you to build that human connection.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Yeah, and it's been amazing to see how you guys have come along. 'cause I mean, it is really around you kind of putting the customer at the front of your story, not listening to what everyone would say or they that you should do, but you figuring out what the right thing is to do and more value is, and you found it in a place that nobody was looking or people have moved on from, which is just an amazing story.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: That's so true. I mean, You know, like, like, and I just can't, I can't say enough about our customers, You know, companies like, like Drta or Pendo or HubSpot or customers, You know, it just, just very exciting to see, see the value that they're generating there. And like I say, I mean, there's nothing more fun for me than to, to drop into, uh, to their offices and just, You know, and hear, hear what's, hear what's working.
So, yeah.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: yeah. So true. Where could, where could people find you? Where should people find you if they wanna learn more about you or they wanna [00:38:00] learn more about next?
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: So for sure, for, uh, no nooks.ai is the, um, is the domain. So absolutely take a look. There. We're, we're often at, uh, You know, sales, uh, SDR type events, And so love to see you in person as well. And then on LinkedIn, Peter Mullins, just, uh, I'd love to connect with anyone, any of your listeners.
nooks-peter_4_04-23-2026_102859: Fantastic. Peter, always great to talk to you. Really appreciate you joining. Um, yeah, thank you.
squadcaster-9b3a_2_04-23-2026_102858: Absolutely. Same here. Real pleasure. Again, Seth. It's, it's, uh, always enjoyed our, our, our connection. So glad to, glad to reconnect again.
And that wraps up another episode. Thank you for joining. For show notes and other episodes, visit us@innovativerevenueleader.ai. The Innovative Revenue Leader is sponsored by Sandler, a Trilia company. Sandler provides top corporate sales and business development training while empowering sales professionals and leaders to master the graph of selling at all levels.