IRL - Jim Iyoob
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Speaker: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Innovative Revenue Leader Podcast. I'm your host, Seth Mars. Join me as we deliver practical insights to help B2B CROs Find new and innovative ways to grow in this fast changing environment. The Innovative Revenue Leader is sponsored by Sandler, a triad company, empowering sales professionals and leaders to master the craft of selling at all levels.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: All right, I'm, I'm excited today to have today's guest. He's a contact center veteran, published author, keynote speaker, and AI innovator in the, in, and especially in the, in the contact center. He, he built an offshore contact center from the ground up, growing it from 22 employees to 550 in just two years.
He's authored five books on, on customer success, AI, f- called The Future of Contact Centers, Deliver and Delivering Customer Experience That Matters, and has been inducted into the CX Hall of Fame twice. His team built Q-Eval, a [00:01:00] quality management platform delivering 100% interaction coverage across contact centers, deployable in days, not months, which is hugely important in getting things going fast.
His current position is the CRO of, of ETech Global Solutions. Jim, thank you very much for joining me
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Oh, Seth, it's my pleasure. I'm so excited about today, um, 'cause I'm, I'm very passionate, as you've seen, you've read, about CX. And I just go real quick to my line, CX That Matters. Think about it. We all talk about CX, but what really matters to the consumers like you and me who are buying from these companies, which was why I wrote that book
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: mean, it's an amazing space right now for, for the contact center, how it works, what the evolution, so I'm really looking forward to, to digging into it with you. Starting out, like from your perspective, what's the most innovative thing that you've seen in B2B right now?
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Yeah. So it's an interesting question because in the B2B world, I think shift [00:02:00] from AI as a novelty, "I think I need it, my boss tells me I need it, but I'm not really sure,"
to AI really going as the infrastructure. 'Cause if you think back just even, like, two years ago, everybody was saying, "Should I try AI?"
Now, like, serious people are asking more intelligent questions like, "What exactly can it do for my workflow?
What is the biggest measurable difference that we'll see?"
And that's fundamentally a different conversation, and in B2B it's happening fast. And, and, and like you and I when we met the first time, I talked about people are using AI to reach out to me on LinkedIn, can't even
get my name right. So that tells me that you don't even know how AI works,
right? And now what we're seeing is the companies that are winning are the ones who stopped chasing the demo
and really started instrumenting their [00:03:00] own workflows
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Amazing. So I think you're especially qualified to talk to that, and this is something... So, like, over my career, I've covered contact center technology on the conversation intelligence side, and then B2B technology on the conversation intelligence side. One thing about it is the contact center seems to be like a laboratory for innovation.
Like, you can move things through so quick. Like, you see things sooner than other people do. I remember looking at, like, the ability to, like, auto capture and auto write back off of conversations, and, like, contact center CI products had that years before B2B did. Like, how do you use that to your advantage to understand?
'Cause y- I'm assuming that you're not able, not... You, you mentioned it in, in the opening, you're not just able to see it, but you're implementing these innovations in real world scenarios, like, years before other people, while other people are experimenting
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: [00:04:00] Yeah. So it, it's a great question, so let me explain. So I love the way the lab. So if you look, I'm also the president of etslabs.ai.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Okay.
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: So I was born and bred in the contact center. I started my career as an agent, and then I ran operations, helped grow this companies, as you s-
read in my bio, right? So if you think about the differences, that is my lab,
right?
So, so my lab is real-time conversation intelligence at scale, not just recording, like scoring it after the fact, not just like... You know, a lot of QA programs, they can do this to what you're saying, like the dialers could score the call. They give you, in my opinion, surface-level data.
So what I always said during a demo, these guys will tell me, "Look, I looked at your conversations. 72% customers are frustrated." Okay, what? "What do you mean? Go fix it." [00:05:00] If I knew how to fix it or my leaders knew how to fix it, I wouldn't need you to tell me. I can go
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah. You knew that already
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: today. So, like, what I say is, like, you have to take it to the next level, like get the insight, the agent in the moment, right?
Right after the call, during the call, whatever you wanna talk about, right? Then feed the data. This is where everybody gets it wrong. gotta take that knowledge or data, 'cause we're all data people, take that data in how you hire the agent, you train the agent, how you compensate the agent.
That's called what I call in my labs closed loop process. then when you close the loop out, right, you stop guessing what good looks
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah. You can see. Like, and, and you, in a contact center, you can see that closed loop where it's not as visible, even though it's becoming more visible now. So it's, it's amazing how fast you innovate when you do that type of stuff
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Absolutely. I love it. I, I love being in [00:06:00] my own labs and being able to use billions of interactions to test, A/B test,
see what works. And then to, just to follow up on that one, what I see in the industry, you have all this data,
it's not getting to the right department.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: CMO Army
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Why not tell training? So closed loop process is going to marketing.
This is what they're
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah. Yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: A lot of people don't think about that. This data's going to training, typically I piss off half the room when I speak publicly. Like, trainers will say, "I trained that." We didn't say you didn't train it. What we're telling you is these 10 agents didn't get it
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: They didn't adopt it. They didn't adopt it. That's a critical piece, but it's also like in-- We find that like at, on the, from a Sandler standpoint, right? You sell the training, they do the training, and then you never hear from them again, and you have no idea if when they're on the call. We actually ran analysis around it and the [00:07:00] selective bias of a seller
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Yep
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: in the skills that you're teaching them is the real determinant.
If the seller decides they want to use it and not, and doesn't want to, or they don't want to use it. Not-- To your point, without the closed loop, I have no ability to know whether the training actually worked because I can't see it in my lab.
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Absolutely. It's huge
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: That's interesting because that's the problem we're looking at and we're, we're working...
'cause you're getting better at doing this stuff, but we've gotta be able to solve it to, to your point. For training to be truly tangibly impactful, you have to do that
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: 100%.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: So like you transitioned from a chief customer officer role to a chief revenue, r- uh, revenue officer role. That's, that's not a traditional path.
Like what kind of led you to make that switch and to move into that role
from from the customer side? 'Cause they... You obviously have a passion for like the customer side of things. Like what made you make that switch?
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: So it's funny, I created [00:08:00] the, chief customer officer role, like 10 years ago, I think it was. Before it was even a role. I did that 'cause I wanted to be a customer experience guy and be able to talk to our clients, right? Really think of this, you know, unlock
my brain to make you better. And then
when I found out, when there was an opportunity with operations in the BPO side, the customer would call me for a problem, and I'm thinking to myself, "But they should be fixing this."
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: changed my role to CRO, which most people think that CRO means you're carrying a sales quota. Zap.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Uh-huh.
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: I, I'm different. I, I don't think of myself like that. I have spent decades of my career obsessing over customer experience. What drives the loyalty? What breaks trust? Where is the friction really at?
Is that the... And I bucketize it in [00:09:00] three things: people, processes, technology. And then when I moved into this revenue seat, which people talk about, already knew what the customer needs, 'cause I've heard all of the complaints, right?
I've been listening to them for 20 years of my career. because I've listened to them, I feel it gives me this significant advantage I'm not thinking about pipeline math, I'm thinking about real time scenarios with voice of customer, real examples, real things that happened, that I built into it.
So CCO didn't hinder my experience as CRO. shaped the way I can have the conversation
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: So, I mean, the w-- it, it sounds like if I were to, to, to see how you would approach selling or appr- approach having your sales team sell, it's... I mean, my education on how to unlock value is very clear, and I'm just gonna unlock the value [00:10:00] for you, and you're gonna wanna buy it because I've shown you why and how I can solve these problems for you tangibly
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: 100%, and it's not from a book I read, not from a feeling, not from what the market tells me. These are real life examples. Like
I, I did a podcast recently, Confessions of a CX Officer.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Uh-huh.
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: I have more confessions than I probably wanna tell anybody, but if you learn from those mistakes and adjust, you just become better
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah. So you're, like we talked about, like the innovation cycles in contact centers are huge. So you're at a, at a place where AI is heavily disrupting, I mean, it, or has the potential to heavily disrupt. As someone who's selling in that space, how are you, how are you handling that? How are you managing all of the chaos of what's real, what's not real, all of that stuff?
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Yeah, so I, I get, I get hit a lot on, when I speak publicly, because I say the same [00:11:00] thing. I said, "You know, I've been in this business for so long. As you know, I've published five books." You know, when the IVR came out, "Gonna remove all your people." You guys are idiots. Then chat came out. "Gonna reduce your staff because you could take three chats to one call."
Idiots, right? Now you're hearing the same thing. The, all these changes, you know, cloud migration, the dialers are gonna do all this stuff. For me as a CRO, disruption creates a selling opportunity for sure.
But really, if you look at it from way my brain thinks, an operational obligation. If I can reduce low-hanging fruit for my agents, which makes me lose bodies in the call
center, but actually give value to my customer, how you operationalize this breaking that experience, 'cause there's a...
I can
give You 100 examples of people who deployed AI that suck, because
I won't deal with these companies anymore. So I look at it as, you have to know [00:12:00] technology as a service, but you can't sell if you don't understand how the technology works, how to make it work good, and you can't sell people them to understand everything in technical worlds.
I'm a very down-to-earth person. I usually give an example, like, "Hey, if the customer has to call you to ask what this is available, and your tech team tells me it's on the website, and it took me nine clicks to find it, that's not operationalized." I
mean, that's low-hanging fruit, and you can fix the website.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah. So it's-- I mean, I-it, it sounds like just be pr-pragmatic about it. Just you've been implementing AI technology for years. It's just find a pragmatic solution, put it in your closed loop scenario, and if it works, keep it, build on it. If it doesn't work, pitch it out and move on. You don't really have to be, you don't have to be epauletted.
I get all hired up about it. I'm [00:13:00] just putting it in my closed loop. If it works, I'm building on it. If it's not, it's out
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: And the one thing I would tell people too that's listening, think you gotta boil the ocean. I
tell everybody the same thing. Let's pick three things that keeps you up at night. Let's start there. And then once you get that working, then you can add your fourth, your fifth, your sixth. But a lot of people believe you need to everything.
No, No, no, you don't.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: No. So what's one, what's one thing that keeps people that you work with up at night that you think AI could, could or is providing value to you, to to them?
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: So great question. I think, I think what I say what keeps, what keeps most of my customers up at night is costing right now. Labor cost is getting expensive, right? And people are coming to me and saying, "How do I automate this?" Well, before we start about automating all of this,
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: let's look at what you're sitting on. The largest data set in the planet. You [00:14:00] already know the top three low-hanging fruit. Where's my status of my order? Well, with AI, not only can I make that experience better, Seth, what I'm gonna do is tell you, "Hey, Seth, here's your order. This is your... You know, you put in your order number. Here's where it is.
Here's when it went to It's on the truck, and it's going to be delivered at 4:00 PM on Monday."
That's what automation can do. And by the way, it just saved me a four-and-a-half minute call for you, call you as an agent. You look up all that stuff and manually tell me over the phone. I can automate that entire process. Now, is it gonna remove some agents? Maybe a handful, but
what it's gonna do is deliver your customer experience better so that those agents now can be trained or upskilled on a more complex thing that you would normally do at your own company
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah. So stuff that they may have to pitch off, you could start moving them in that direction to be able to support that better [00:15:00] experience, a step removed, all that stuff.
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Absolutely
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Cool. Okay. So let's shift a little bit into some of like the, like typical things that CROs have to, have to deal with and, and think about.
So wh-when you think about a skill for a seller, what, what would you say is the most important skill a seller needs to be successful?
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Well, I've been selling my whole life without selling, by the way. Um, a- and, and I can tell you is genuine curiosity, that's what I call it.
Just be curious, number one. Not the scripted bull crap that people do. And I get these people all the time, and it's funny you say it 'cause, like, my phone will ring, I don't know who it is, you answer it.
And I'll
actually coach the agent. I'll say, "Listen, can I, can I interrupt you?" And they're like, "Well, let me finish." What are you reading a script? Let me finish. Right? So don't be scripted. Real curiosity about the customer's business.
I w-
I don't wanna say pain points, let's call it [00:16:00] pressure points,
but I go to simplicity. What keeps you up at night? Once you understand that, like the best sellers that I've worked with in the business ask so many better questions than their competitors. 'Cause typically a sales guy who's selling technology sells what? Features and benefits,
but doesn't Understand my pain points. I get probably five a month. I'm sure you're only analyzing 3% of your calls, and I'm su- like they basically pre-judged me, didn't even do anything, didn't even ask me. But if you actually build trust, and I'm a big proponent of the trusted advisor relationship,
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: it, it's a great book if you've never read it, The Trusted Advisor, but when you build trust faster, that creates referrals.
That creates the friction point when procurement comes to you and says, "But your competitor's $10 cheaper." But I'm
giving you this value. That's, [00:17:00] that's what I think 'cause a lot of people sell on price.
I mean, when I go to fire a customer, it's funny as hell. They'll call me up and say, "Listen, we need to get on a call." And then you basically say, "I'm firing you." And they're like, "Well, wait a minute. What is it? I mean, I can reduce your price by 50%." Well, crap, what'd you do the whole year? It's time for renewal now. I'm not renewing at the same rate?
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah So I- curiosity is number one, and listen to understand, not to sell me
Yeah. And by understanding, you won't have to sell because you'll know... Yeah, they'll guide you. People will guide you if you're curious. That makes-- That's a
great, great advice
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: And if you build the relationship up front
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yep. So let's turn to something more hard coded in a sales, in a salesperson's mind. Like everyone talks about compensation and/or thinks about it. When you're thinking about like compensating sellers in a way that can motivate, like what's one thing you do in your plans that you believe [00:18:00] motivates results that's a little bit different than maybe other organizations or a typical plan would have?
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Well, think we all say we do this, by the way. I think everybody says they do this, but I don't see it 'cause I do talk to a lot of people who go to companies, work for three months, six months, and then left or, or after a year. So I always tell people you need to tie a meaningful of compensation to retention of the customer. It's not just acquisition. Most sales guys get paid to sell the big deal.
When they sell the big d- especially in a BPO environment, right?
A rep closes a deal, let's say it churns in six months, eight months. It actually cost me more money in that six to eight months than it did for the entire account. So I believe when the seller has skin in the game, right,
I think, I think the seller will do better.
So as an [00:19:00] example, if I go close a deal, or when I did used to close deals at E-Tech, I'd be calling you up, "Seth, how's ops doing, buddy? Everything good? No? What can I do to f- what can I do to help you?" And then they'll tell you, then you get to work with the operations teams to fix the problems before they become big problems, and I think that's the only way it works.
'Cause the only way you're gonna modify change
and behaviors, right, is to really put some skin in the game. 'Cause there's no training program, and I know s- you know, Sandler does have a training program. There's no training program in the business that can replicate passion for helping the customer.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah. How, um, like how do you do it though? Like, there's lots of ways to skin it, um, in terms of retention. So- or like incentivizing retention. Like, are you able to talk to this a little bit more? Like, what do you put in to be- 'cause, like, if you do too much, then, then you're, then you're basically creating a bunch of farmers.
If you do too little, they don't care about it. To your point, they just kind of walk [00:20:00] away and focus on the next big deal. How do you make it stick?
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: So you want it to stick over years, not months,
right? So a lot of times what we'll do is, okay, for the first six months you're gonna get X
on the the revenue. Next six months gonna be on the growth, right? Or even you could do three months, right? Next it'll be a higher, but it'll be on growing it so that you didn't just sell it, let it go, and let everybody else w- worry about your implementation of it.
'Cause remember, selling it is hard.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: you sold it, there's a lot of stuff that has to happen to make it work.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah, completely
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: I get the salesperson involved? him to the site, him be on the monthly business reviews to hear what ops is doing, hear what the customer's complaining about, if they are, or rewarding us for, which then gives you more skin in the game. Um, for me, it's a tiered approach,
right? So meaning tier that you're [00:21:00] gonna get less in the beginning, 'cause what I want you to be is long-term greedy,
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: right? So how do I get you long-term greedy? Number one, make sure it's successful launch, which normally takes about 90 days.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Then the next three months is stabilization.
And then hopefully on month six you already have opportunities to grow it. So it makes you
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Cool
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: engaged so you... So the last thing I want one of my sales reps to do is come to me and say, "Hey, we're six months in. I don't know what's going on." Why not? You should be able
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah.
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Tell me everything that we're doing wrong.
You should be able to tell me opportunities you heard. As an example, like we hear our customers say, you know, on our monthly business reviews, "Man, our, our labor costs are killing us. We really need to start talking about automation." should be front and center.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, listening for all those components and those pieces and areas where you can help, and you won't hear them if you're not there and engaged
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: some of my [00:22:00] listeners, my, our eTech listeners. Am I really 100% confident guy running the bodies in the seats is gonna tell me that the customer said they wanna automate?
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah.
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: The answer The answer is no.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: No,
that's true. So let's talk about another part of it, which is like the forecasting side. You kind of made mention to it earlier. Like, what's your philosophy around that? Because, like, forecasting is, uh, like, it- it's critical to the business, but everyone seems to have their own magic way of, of, of doing it.
What's your philosophy around that?
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Yeah, so my philosophy is don't use HubSpot, don't use Salesforce, don't use a freaking piss-ass report, excuse my mouth, that, that tells me what's in my funnel. I don't even like the word pipeline or funnel, to be honest with you. But what I do is every Monday I get my sales team on a call,
and they all give me this beautiful CRM [00:23:00] data pulse. And the first thing I do is say, "I don't even wanna walk through it. Here's what I wanna know. I wanna know each opportunity, who'd we meet with? What did they say? What is the compelling event that is c- is stalling it?" 'Cause it's usually that's what you're talking
about, 'cause I've had this in my pipeline for six months.
The CRM field is never gonna tell me that 'cause it's entered based on data, right?
So they don't really tell you what's actually happening. like I have an example of a live customer, so even my boss. You know, this has been, this has been going on for six months. Yeah, he told me there's a merger happening.
He's not doing nothing until this date, period.
So is it still alive? Yes. But he basically told me, don't bother him, don't talk to him. They're going
through this merger, which will be announced this, and that's it. And that's what I do, 'cause it keeps the team honest with themselves,
which Is really where forecasting breaks down.
And I know this because [00:24:00] I get emails from CEOs who are trying to sell us all the time.
"Hey, I've been working with your team for six months, and seems like it's been stalling." And I usually respond to them and say, "What, are you trying to update your forecast? Let me give you-- Let me help you. Pipeline, put it in 2027, 'cause it ain't happening this year. Sorry they didn't tell you this, but if you called me three months ago, I'd have told you the same thing." And that's where I think the breakdown is, 'cause people look at the numbers
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: I mean, is it to a certain extent, the way you're talking about it is just fricking be honest, and let's have an honest assessment what the real thing is. Don't try to make me feel better by throwing something in. Just give me an honest assessment so I can go to work and actually try to close the deals that are real for me, and tell me if it's later.
I'm gonna work on the stuff that I can control
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Absolutely. So many times tech companies would call me and offer me all sorts of incentives 'cause they need, you know, they're trying to close out the quarter, and I never wanna do that. Like, I don't use any of those tactics. To your point, be honest. If you tell me it's gonna be 2027, still be here. No big [00:25:00] deal for me. At least I know. I'll keep you in a monthly rotation and make sure that you don't, somebody else doesn't go in and
steal me. But, but that's it. You're right. Honesty would be the best
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Makes, it makes sense and it's pretty efficient because people have a tendency to spin a lot around forecasting
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Oh God, yes. I mean, 200 million.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: So like you've done a CCO job, you're doing a CRO job, you're a president of a business. Like what's your take on sales and marketing, sales, marketing, customer success alignment? Like how, how do you build alignment with those teams? You have unique experience with it. I'm really interested in your perspective.
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Yeah, so it's definitely personal for me 'cause I've seen so many organizations where sales, marketing, customer success or whatever they call them, opera- operate like three separate companies,
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah, yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: They really do. They don't talk to each other. They hate each other. They blame... When marketing comes out with something for ops, doesn't work, they blame marketing, blah, blah, [00:26:00] blah. fix is not a kickoff meeting. It's not a shared dashboard. I think a shared definition of what success looks like would be first. So before... You have to all get everybody in the room and agree before we go to market this is what we're gonna do. when all three functions work in the same customer profile as what we all agreed success looks like, that's giving you alignment as a byproduct, as an example.
So it's kinda like the book, which I've read tons of books, but like getting into people's buy-in. 'Cause you want them to say, "This is what I wanna do," and agree so that you can use that to, to get that alignment.
But then, and what I found is when you get all three of those organizations aligned to the success and goal what it looks like, they stop finger-pointing.
[00:27:00] And once they stop finger-pointing, right, they can actually do a self-assessment of what they could have done better in their silo we'll call it for now, in
their silo to make the farm bigger
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah. So it's one goal, and then get people so we're all trying to do, then you all become a team trying to reach the goal rather than individual groups trying to accomplish their own thing. Simple, but most people miss that step
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: So I've missed it. Personal confession. So, I mean, I own social media across all of our channels. I own marketing. I own all these divisions you're talking about, customer success. And I used to work with my marketing team on these things years ago. "Here you go. This is what I wanna put out. This is what I'm doing." Then I would go to my social team to give them a different story what I'm doing than I'm giving to my customer success team. And they're like, they'll make a mistake, and I'll bring up one of my [00:28:00] blogs I put it out or one
of my things I put out, and I was like, "Man, didn't you read my latest newsletter?
This is exactly the problem you're having." "No, I didn't know you were doing that."
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Oh, yeah.
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Fair, fair point.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yep. So sales, art or science? What's your take?
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: I think it's a combination, in my opinion, of both. And, and what I would say would be it really depends where you are in the sales cycle.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Okay
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: early stages is heavy art. I'm a public speaker. I'm Italian. You see I speak with my hands. I say the things most people are thinking, right?
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: a junior sales guy will- is gonna go to the book or whatever he was trained on, right? think being able to read people and being
able to build a rapport first, that earns me a seat at the table. I think that is really an art to be able to be personable. I've had, I've
had people in my [00:29:00] organization who are unbelievable SMEs. Like, we're talking master expert about the entire operation.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: You put 'em out in public and you ask them to present, they freeze.
ask them a question, they can answer it. So I think most mistakes that I've seen is these organizations applying science the- to really where art needs to be done getting that trusted relationship. You know, you can't grow revenue on instinct alone. You have to
grow with a combination of things, and you have to earn the right to be at the table. believe that's an art through rapport building, uh, reputation building, and delivering on what you promised to deliver
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: So it's a great point and so true. The prospecting side and getting in the door is still, even today, very[00:30:00]
much an art form. Like on how you can communicate in a way to be able to do that. But it sounds like it-- But then as you go through the process, it becomes more science as you have more discussions, get into details, then it becomes very scientific around how do you go to take it to close, if I understand what you're saying
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: So I'll give you, I'll give you a live example. Recently, one of my VPs of sales, I helped him with a proposal. this beautiful proposal, state-of-the-art, and he actually gave the, the prospect several versions of it. So, like, one he can actually give to his boss, one can he g- you know, beautiful. In the email, it was literally all business
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: When I saw it go out, I jumped in 'cause I know the company, I'm a
customer of the company, and I actually gave him a real-life scenario thanking him for what he's done for me because it, I had this
experience, blah, blah, blah. And it's funny 'cause he responded to mine within minutes. My VP of sales guy hasn't res- hasn't even responded to him yet.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah, [00:31:00] it's too much. Yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: I got, I got to show him, was like, "Listen, all human beings, We can all relate to human beings. Doesn't have to be a thesis, doesn't have to be this, doesn't have to..."
And everybody talks about me 'cause I talk, I say stuff I'm not supposed to say, and everybody says, "Well, you need to be more professional." I said, "Let me give you the definition of professional. First of all, I'm getting paid to do my job, which by definition, I'm professional."
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Impressional
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: I say is irrelevant, but that's, that's my, that's my part on that part of it.
I mean, you have to have some human in it. That's why, like, I'm a big foodie.
So it's pretty funny, like when, when I talk to a prospect first time, they're in New York. "Oh, God, do you know where my favorite place was? Beefsteak Charlie's. I don't think they're still in business." It's something you can relate to
'cause he's in New York.
I used to... I'm from the East Coast. And that's what starts the opportunity for you to actually build a relationship, 'cause my goal isn't just to sell you. My goal is to understand who you
are, what you do, what your pain points are.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Awesome. That's [00:32:00] awesome. So let's talk a little bit about you, uh, a li- let's talk a little about you. Offline, we were talking about kind of the contact center, how long you've been in it. So as a kid, do you even know what a contact center was? Or have you like... You, you mentioned at the beginning, like you were born and raised in the contact center.
Is that true or is it one that you
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: So my p- my, my mom and dad, my m- my dad owned grocery stores, believe it or not,
in Pennsylvania. So I used to stock shelves, used to run the cash register. I was intrigued. My sister to school for computer programming, and she was working for the government at the time. I
decided to go to college for computer programming system design
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: I would not have guessed that. Yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: it's actually a little one of my hidden talents when an IT guy tells me they can't do something. So I come out of school, I don't have a job, like anybody back then, and I got a job at Dun & Bradstreet as a call center agent. I needed money.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Uh-huh
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: As a [00:33:00] call center agent in the nine- early '90s, my second day on the job... And by the way, I was hired by Kelly Temporary Services. I wasn't even a full-time employee
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Oh, wow
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: This guy, Matt Rocco, walks out to the call center floor. He was the director of the call center for D&B, and says, you know, brought me into his office and he says, "Hey, you know, what are you doing here?" So I said, you know. He's like, "What do you wanna do?" And I'm like, "Well, I'm trying to make some money. I, you know, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
Look around your office, man, this looks pretty nice." This, I said,
I think it's this
I'd like to have your job." And for whatever reason, he took me as his mentee, so he mentored me throughout my career. I was on the cover of the 1997 annual report of Dun
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Really?
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: I removed 230 jobs with automation back then, because all the people in Dun & Bradstreet in the day were on the field.
They were out going visiting. I was one of those people, and I was like, "I freaking hate being in my car. I could do this over the phone." And he says, "Okay, smartass, go ahead and do it." [00:34:00] So I did. And long story short, I mean, that's really what got me into this space, and then I loved fixing things. I love building stuff, so every time I saw a problem, I wanted to build something to fix it, that's, that's where I ended up in the contact center since. Said... And by the way, Matt's my boss now. He left Dun & Bradstreet, took me with him. So I've been with the guy for over 30 years
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Wow. Wow. And it seems like you, you found your passion with this. Like, so-
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: i- i- if you think about passion, the passion's always been effortless customer experience. And I'm friends with
Matt Dixon, not real good friends, but I know Matt Dixon who wrote that book, and I've always said, know, my definition of, you know, effortless customer experience is how freaking hard is it for me to do business with you since I'm
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah.
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: right?
Like
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Exactly.
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: my wife and I are building a house right now,
and the project manager sent me plans. We did all the edits, sent it back to him. [00:35:00] He sends it back and says, "Will you guys give this a final look?" And I said, "Th- this isn't the one that I'm, that I sent you with all my edits." And my wife's over here saying, "Well, I'm gonna fix it."
"No, no, no, you're not. I'm paying this guy."
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: No. He needs to do it first
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: And I called him up and he says, "I'm so sorry. I'll fix it." "Okay, good." I
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Yeah
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: it, it was effortless for me, right? I just called him up and says, "Hey, you don't even have the latest plans that we sent you that had all the changes." And he's like, "Oh, you're absolutely right.
Let me fix it." "Okay, good deal."
So that's how I define effortless. How hard is it for me to do business with you? 'Cause if you're gonna argue with me and tell me to do something, at this point I'm like, "I'm done." So
that's what got me the passion to fix problems.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: That's awesome. So if you could go back, I mean, you've had a great career. Go back and give yourself one piece of advice when you graduated college, what would that be?
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Yeah. So this is an easy one, I spent way too much time in my career trying to demonstrate to everybody how smart I was and what I knew Right? I mean, 'cause I, I'm [00:36:00] passionate, as you see the passion in
my voice, but it comes across sometimes wrong. Uh, the best executives in the business, what I learned from them, they're the ones who ask the best questions, and I had to learn that in my career be patient with the process.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Mm-hmm.
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: The last thing I would say is, if I knew this 20 years ago, I'd probably be a lot b- smarter now. It took me years to get that hu- that humility
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Uh-huh
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: I'll say my life, because I'm always... Somebody's telling, I wanna fix it. I just wanna go fix it. I just
gotta think Back. I gotta sit back, be patient, ask more questions, take a breath, and then give a possible solution
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Gotcha. So how do, like, how do people learn more about, or if they want to follow you, learn more about you, where can they go to do that and also learn more about eTax?
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Yeah. So, uh, great question. I'm, [00:37:00] not a lot of Iyoobs out there. It's Jim Iyoob, I-Y-O-O-B. For you salespeople that are gonna sell me, it's not an L. Um, connect with
me On LinkedIn. Um, I also s- I also have my own newsletter out there, which you find on my LinkedIn profile, uh, Remarkable CX. I'm not selling in it.
Once a month, I put knowledge out there. So to put it in perspective, people who know me know I go to the casino. I have a craps table at my house. I have two slot machines at my house. I like the casino.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: I saw the post you had. You had a good day a couple days ago
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Yeah, yeah. So I did write a blog about leadership and tied it to di- a game of dice.
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Nice
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: And I'm speaking in Vegas next week, and I'm actually using this example to talk about data and analytics.
See, people gamble. I don't gamble. I'm a strategist. It's all about the numbers and the data, and I prove that when I talk about it. So easiest way is LinkedIn. You can check out etechgs.com or [00:38:00] etslabs.ai. I'm very easy to Google and find, but I love educating people, young up-and-comers, managers who are just getting in this career, don't know if it's them. I love to mentor young people because I think that's our future, and I think those are the biggest things that bring me excitement in my life
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Fantastic. Thank you so much for joining, Jim. Great conversation
jim-iyoob_1_06-15-2026_143750: Thank you so much. I appreciate it
squadcaster-17de_1_06-15-2026_153749: Thank you very
Speaker 2: And that wraps up another episode. Thank you for joining. For show notes and other episodes, visit us@innovativerevenueleader.ai. The Innovative Revenue Leader is sponsored by Sandler, a Trilia company. Sandler provides top corporate sales and business development training while empowering sales professionals and leaders to master the graph of selling at all levels.